Irony Flips and Flops and Other Loose Thoughts

Can't seem to get my head to focus on any one issue today.  We've been working on Mr. SIGIS's man-cave today and I'm pondering the irony of that.  If it's a Man-Cave, shouldn't HE be decorating it?  Yeah, so I'm done with that. 

Speaking of irony, isn't there some irony in Rick Perry suing Virginia over its "onerous" ballot requirements?  Taegan Goddard beat me in noting that out loud, but it's true, nonetheless.  That being said, I'm not sure he doesn't have a point.  Allahpundit:

So I ask again: Is he right? A law professor interviewed by NBC says the lawsuit “now faces long odds, both legally and politically” (partly because they should have challenged Virginia’s requirements earlier), but some federal appellate courts have sided with Perry on this. Here’s one case, from the Tenth Circuit, finding state residency requirements for petition circulators unconstitutional; two other federal appellate courts have ruled similarly. The question is whether the Fourth Circuit, which covers Virginia, will rule the same way. How lucky do you feel?

Lucky!


We shall see.

And speaking of Rick Perry, his new stance on abortion is raising some eyebrows.  He now opposes abortion in all circumstances:

“That transformation was after watching the DVD, ‘The Gift of Life,’” Perry said. “And I really started giving some thought about the issue of rape and incest. And some powerful, some powerful stories in that DVD.”

Perry said a woman who appeared in the movie who said she was a product of rape moved him to change his mind about abortion.

Iowa caucuses are a week away; coincidence or no?

“She said, ‘My life has worth.’ It was a powerful moment for me,” Perry said.

It sounds sincere.  Allahpundit, again:

For argument’s sake, I’ll give you three reasons why this might not be pure political expedience at work. One: It wouldn’t be the first time personal testimony on a hot-button issue made a deep impression on Perry. His experience with Heather Burcham clearly touched him too. Two: It seems almost too desperate. Precisely because the timing reeks of expedience, there’s a risk that more social cons will perceive it as pandering and will dismiss him as a phony than will be charmed by his newfound commitment. If he was going to flip on this for reasons of political gain, why not do it several weeks ago instead of in the middle of his final Iowa push? Three, most importantly: How does he gain from it, really? 

One of the comments at Hot Air:

It is part of the problem I have with him. He is too easily led astray of what is right by what is “right” in a progressive way. Obviously moving to the right on abortion is not a progressive direction, but what happens when it is illegal aliens or even people in other countries who want to come here on the tax payer dime for life saving medical care? I sure as hell do not want to be paying for their healthcare because Perry met some Guatemalan refugee in need of a transplant.

It's a valid point, but again, it's a stance that is consistent with Perry's faith and positions.  I'm willing to believe him on this one.  He's going to spend the rest of the campaign defending it, though.  He's forfeited the "flip-flopper" card against Mittens now.

People that know Perry and have met him, for the most part, trumpet his sincerity and down home, plain folks demeanor.  There is, it seems to me, a reason why he's never lost an election, and that may be part of it. 

I'm still pulling for Perry.  Even if it IS a flip-flop, it's one against the many of Mittens.  This one at least has a smatch of sincerity in it.  

Of course, there's Santorum, surging, who hasn't needed to flip on this issue.

Ah well, Iowa is but a brick in the long road of this campaign and Iowa's record of picking the eventual nominee is just over 50% (if you go by a Paul-Bot's analysis.)

Here's Rick Perry's latest ad:

Another Debate, Another Live-Blogging Event (UPDATED)

Since The World Series doesn't start until tomorrow (Rangers!)  I guess I'll watch and live-blog another Republican debate.  I know at least one person checked in last time, and I'm curious to see what it means when Perry says he's going to "break the rules."  Will he finally show a little spark?  I'm on the edge of my seat.

News today is that Herman Cain's architect for 9-9-9 is now advising him to drop the sales tax component.  I guess after Bachmann and others pointed out that it's an open line of revenue for Congress and opens the door to a VAT, well, it could be problematic.

Ed Morrissey has his eye on Newt, and as much as I hate to say it, he might be on to something:

Of all the other candidates on the stage, Newt Gingrich might be the one to watch.  He has slowly gained momentum by being among the most positive on stage (except to moderators) and demonstrating his encyclopedic knowledge and quick wit.  If it wasn’t for his personal baggage, he might already be the front-runner — and if both Cain and Perry stumble late, Republicans might be inclined to take on his baggage rather than hand Mitt Romney the nomination virtually unchallenged.

While you're waiting for the debate, be sure to catch Stacy McCain's American Spectator article today.  He's at the top of his game, AND he's in Vegas.

Debate begins at 7 CT.  C'mon back.

Added:  Bumping this back to the top.

Also, if you haven't seen it yet, check out Michelle Malkin's handicapping of the field.  It's not pretty.

Also Added:  Ooops.  Is Herman Cain done?  This is a terrible answer.   This combined with the electrified fence theory of border control is pretty hard to overcome.

The beginning: At least Huntsman isn't in this one.  Bachmann is sporting her up-do tonight.

Candidate intros.  His daughter had surgery today.  Shout out.  Awwww.  Ron Paul:  "I'm the champion of liberty."  Alrighty now.

Herman Cain:  Married 43 years.  Wow.  That's a nice record.  He "solves problems for a livin'."

Mitt:  Touts his Olympic creds.    Rick Perry:  "A proven job creator.  A man who is about economic growth.  An authentic conservative, not a man who is a conservative for convenience."

Newt:  "Unlike President Obama, I'm glad to be in Vegas.  I think it's a great place to have a convention."  Heh!

Bachmann:  "This is one night when I hope what happens in Vegas doesn't stay in Vegas."

First question is about replaced federal income tax with a federal sales tax.  Bachmann gets first draw.  "Anytime you give Congress a brand new tax, it doesn't go away."  She has concerns that the 9-9-9 tax will go higher.

Cain responds.  "Read our analysis."  He says politicians don't want to throw out the tax code and put in something simple.  He says his plan will liberate American workers and businesses.

Santorum likes Cain's boldness, but Americans will pay more in taxes under Cain's plan, he says. 

Perry says "go to New Hampshire where they don't have a sales tax and you're fixin' to give 'em one."  He's got a strong answer here.  "Get Americans Workin' Again" count is one.

Cain talking about apples and oranges and loaves of bread now.  He's on the defensive.

Ron Paul calls 9-9-9 dangerous and regressive.  Ron Paul likes that a lot of people aren't paying taxes.  Ugh.  He says replace the income tax with "nothing."  Applause.

Lordy we've descended into a fruit bowl.  "No!  That's an apple."  We're replacing apples with oranges.  What?  Cain:  "That's apples and oranges!"  Romney:  "I'm going to be getting a bushel basket filled with apples and oranges because I'm going to have to pay both taxes."  Applause.

Romney is articulate in decimating the 9-9-9 plan.

Newt:  "I think Herman Cain deserves a lot of credit" for taking a risk with a big idea.  "He has us talking about something that at least matters," instead of the usual junk.  Newt says, however, it's much more complex than Herman lets on.

Newt favors zero capital gains and other focused cuts.  Something you can do very fast; 9-9-9 would take years to think through and do right.

Bachmann likes Reagan's "economic miracle."  She thinks every single American ought to pay something "even if it's a dollar."  She plugs her website.

Perry says "the nine we ought to be concentrating on" is the 9% unemployment.  This administration is blocking energy creation, he says.  "Let's have American energy independence!"  Applause.

Romney says energy is all well and good but manufacturing is important too.

Santorum has strong answers, but he just is milquetoast.  Dull.  He attacks Romney on ObamaCare, however and says Romney has no credibility on this issue.  Romney gets testy and reminds people that this is the 8th or 9th debate and he's written a book and he's quite sick of defending this position.  A war of interruptions erupts between Santorum (who reminds Romney that he changed his stance in his book).

Romney insists that RomneyCare is popular and works in his state but is not what he wants for the nation.  Santorum is still coming unglued.

Fireworks!

Newt tries to restore order.  "Candidly, Mitt, your plan is essentially one more big government, bureaucratic" mess.  "There's a lot of big government behind" RomneyCare.  Romney says they got the idea of an individual mandate from you [Newt].    Not true, says Newt.

Bachmann is screaming "Anderson, Anderson, Anderson!"  wanting some time.

He gives her some time.  She wants to point out the CLASS Act was thrown out because "Obamacare is so flat out unpopular."  Applause.

First commerical.  Whew.

Best commercial break Tweet:

Update 7:45:  To Cain, would you keep any part of Obamacare?  "No."  It's a disaster, he says.

HR3400, says Cain.  It passes market centered reforms to allow association health plans.

To Perry a question about the high rate of uninsured kids in Texas.  He says heath insurance in TX is just fine, thank you.  "We have a 1200 mile border with Mexico and a huge number of illegals."  He pivots the whole question to illegals.  He's screwed up here by talking about a magnet that draws illegals when his own tuition exemption is a pretty big magnet.  Perry attacks Romney and calls him a hypocrite for hiring illegals.

Perry is "breaking the rules" and gets boo'd.

"It's been a tough couple of debates for Rick" and he's getting "testy" says Romney.

Romney is all over this magnet thing and blasts Perry on the in-state tuition.  "If there is someone who has a record as governor who doesn't stand up to muster on illegal immigration it's you, not me."

Score.

Perry says he's against amnesty.  Perry is done.  He keeps interrupting Mitt who schools Perry on interrupting.  "If you want to be president of the United States you've got to listen" better.  Boy!

Mitt promises to put in place E-Verify ("which YOU opposed" he says to Perry).  He gets applause.

Anderson Cooper calls out Cain on the electric fence.  "Allow me to give a serious answer," says Cain.  Build a fence and boots on the ground in the more dangerous areas.  "We must shut the back door so people can come in the front door."  Enforce current immigration laws.  "Empower the states to do what the federal government is NOT doing in enforcing those laws."

Perry:  "Sure you can build a fence...but there's a better way.  Build a virtual defense border," not unlike what Cain said.  Use drones.  "Boots on the ground" (lord I'm sick of that expression.) 

Bachmann takes the high road and points to Obama's aunt and uncle who are allowed to stay in the country.  She says she can build a fence across the entire border.  Perry says yeah, you can do that but again, there's a better way.

Mitt says "turn off the magnets."  He lobs a shot at Perry that gets boo'd.

Perry:  "We have a federal government that has failed."  Perry says Mitt hired illegals when he had a lawn service that had an illegal working for them.  Perry is making a much bigger deal of that than it is or that Romney is actually responsible for and he's getting boo'd for it.  It's not working for him.

Mitt is killing Perry on the immigration issue.  His weakness so far has been on health care.

Ron Paul.  No fence.

Cain:  He gets a question on the 14th amendment but pivots to an economy answer.  9-9-9.

Perry gets the 14th amendment question.  He, too, pivots.  "You get to ask the questions and I get to answer like I want to."  Booo's.  "Get this country workin'" count is two.  Perry is blathering about mining and green energy boondoggles.  "Get Americans workin" double hit.  Up to four.

Perry does not support repealing the 14th Amendment.

Bachmann gets the same question.  Anchor babies.  Deal with it legislatively.

Santorum:  Nobody's talking about family, faith and marriage!  Latinos understand about families!

8:05:  Audience question is about the Yucca mountain repository:  Newt says we have to find a safe method of taking care of nuclear waste; the way we're doing it now is vastly more dangerous than Yucca mountain would be.

Ron Paul says 49 states shouldn't be able to dump their garbage in one state and Romney agrees with him.

Everyone else is pretty much in agreement on that.

A housing question:  Santorum points out everyone who supported TARP and points out Perry who shouts:  "WRONG" and Cain who mutters "Not ALL of it...".  Santorum calls them flip floppers.

Santorum says let the market work.

Perry rebuts:  "We wrote a letter to Congress acting them to act," not necessarily supporting TARP.  Santorum disagrees.  Perry says "I wasn't for TARP."

Cain says he supported the concept of TARP but didn't like "all the other things."

Bachmann's response to the housing question is something about women at the end of their ropes losing their houses.  She wants to talk to moms.  "Obama has failed you!"

8:15:   Ron Paul points out that the bail outs came from both parties.  He's going after "the Fed."

Discussion on OWS:  Romney "Obama has failed you."  Where have I heard that before?  "Americans are hurting across this country and the president is out campaigning!  Why isn't he governing?!"

Commercial break.  Sam Adams break.

8:40:  I was checking Twitter during the break.  Ed Morrissey notes that Perry has improved significantly which is not really saying much.

Cooper barrels right in with a Mormon question.  Santorum points out that he's a Catholic himself but that people should look at the character of the person.

Newt says "If the question is 'does faith matter' then absolutely."  He points out that this country was founded on religious principles.  "None of us should rush in judgment on others" in the way they approach God.  Newt says he'd really be concerned about someone who said faith wouldn't affect their judgment but basically it's nobody's business what your relationship with god is.

Perry says he could never separate himself from his faith. Perry says clearly he does not agree with the disparaging remarks made about Romney's faith.  All is well.

Question Bachmann:  Should defense be cut?  She points out the thwarted Iranian attack on the U.S. and Obama engaging American troops "in a fourth conflict" in Uganda.  She says the U.S. is disrespected in the world today because of Obama's failed policies.  "The president of Iran is a genocidal maniac!"  Great!

Defense spending is on the table, she says, but the president has spread us too thin.  We cannot cut it by 500 billion dollars.

Newt:  Washington is broken; look at the super-committee.  "We'll have to shoot ourselves in the head so when they come back with the idea to cut off our right leg we'll simply be grateful."  OMG.

Newt says, "I'm a hawk, but I'm a cheap hawk."  He will not put the defense of the US next to some arbitrary budget number.  Applause.

Ron Paul - oh yeah, cut the hell out of defense spending.  Come home.

Ok here's the hostage question to Cain.  Will he clear this up?  Cain says "you would have to consider the entire situation.  I would have a policy that we do not negotiate with terrorists," but you have to look at all of the facts.  Not much better.

Anderson:  Isn't that negotiating?

Cain:  "We cannot negotiate with terrorists" which is where we have to start as a fundamental principle.  Hmmm.

Santorum:  No defense spending cuts.  "It is the first duty of the President of the United States to protect us."  This administration has had political objectives rather than objectives for success.  Bachmann is right, he says, Iran does disrespect us.

Discussion about foreign aid.  Paul wants it cut.  "Would you cut aid to Israel," Cooper asks.  Yep.  It doesn't help them, Paul said.  It makes them dependent.

Bachmann says she'd "never" cut aid to Israel; they're our great ally!

Cain says he'd never let Gitmo terrorists go, "that was not the intent at all."

Ron Paul brings up Reagan negotiating with hostages (Iran) and Santorum wants to say apples and oranges but he doesn't.  He says it was totally different.  Newt points out that Reagan thought the Iranian deal "was a terrible mistake."

Is Perry still here?

Last round:   Who can beat Obama is the new topic.  Romney has the best chance, according to polls, says Cooper.  Santorum:  Less than 50% of Americans can even name one of us, so it's irrelevant.  "No one in this field has won a swing state."  I have, he says.  I won Pennsylvania.  No one has defeated a Democrat in a major race - "I have."  Santorum is firing at all of them.  He has a sense of desperation about him.

Romney gets a rebuttal:  People are looking for someone to beat Obama and it's me!  I've spent my life in the private sector!

Perry: " If you wanna know how someone is gonna act in the future look at how they acted in the past."  Compares his jobs record to Romneys and says his record is much better. 

Romney rebuts:  "You were the chairman of Al Gore's campaign" and GWB was running.  Ouch.  Half the jobs in Texas, says Mitt, were created for illegal aliens.  "Incorrect!" says Perry.  Perry rebuts and names big companies that came to Texas and gets boo'd.  This audience is NOT Perry friendly.

Ooooo  and Romney steals the "Get America workin' again" line.

Cain:  I should be president!  Cain says Romney's experience is Wall Street and his own is Main Street.  Cain says he is a problem solver "who fixes stuff."

Romney:  "We both have a private sector background.  I've been CEO four times." 

Bachmann with the cake thing again:  "The cake is baked.  Obama will be a one-term president!"

Newt blasts Cooper for "maximizing bickering."  Newt wants 7 three hour debates with Obama.  Cool!  I'd watch that!

Well Anderson cut it off before everyone got to answer much to everyone's ire. 

Who won?  Nobody.  Seriously.  It was full of fire and bickering and much more interesting.  The audience was set against everything Perry said and boo'd him at every turn.  Romney took some hits, I think, on RomneyCare but Perry brow beat him with the illegal lawn service guy.  Overdone.  Herman Cain backed off from saying he'd release Gitmo terrorists but I think damage was done already on that.  The video lives.  Bachmann stayed steady and had a few good moments.  Newt remains quick witted and smart and bribes us all with a promise to mop the floor with Obama in 21 hours of debates.

Oh would I love to see that. 

Cull the herd.

The CNN/Tea Party Debate: LIVE BLOG

For those worshiping at the House of Football, and those not inclined to watch, we've got your back at SIGIS.  Live-blogging to commence shortly.

And here we go...

Why does it seem  incongruous to me that CNN has teamed up with the Tea Party for this debate?

I'm not sure why Jon Huntsman is still in this race.  Maybe tonight will show me.

I should get hazard pay for having to listen to Wolf Blitzer.

And here come the contenders.

Romney busses Bachmann when she comes out.  He didn't kiss anyone else.  Hmmm.

Ok, all joking aside.  Here we go.  Santorum and Romney lip synced the national anthem.  Everyone else stood respectfully.

One minute to answer?  That's fast.

I know why it's a 2 hour debate.  We still haven't started.  Now the candidates are about to introduce themselves in 30 seconds or less.

Bachmann touts her Tea Party roots in her intro to some nice applause.  Cain touts his credentials as a non-politician.  Perry:  "I wanna make Washington as inconsequential in your life as I can.  Newt  celebrates the 9/12 date and says it's time to profoundly change Washington.  Santorum  ... hunh?

First question:  "How will you convince senior citizens that Social Security and Medicare need to be changed and how will you get their vote?"  And Blitzer repeats the question even though we heard it clearly.

Bachmann answers first.  Reform, she says.  "Obama STOLE over 500 billion dollars out of Medicare to switch it to Obamacare!"  Ooooo fine line she walks - says she's been there long enough to know the problems but not long enough to be part of the system.

Perry:  To the people who are on Social Security today it is "slam dunk guaranteed" that program will be there for those individuals.  But says we need to reform.

Romney says most people agree with Perry but says "Ponzi scheme" is "scary."  He goes on to quote Perry saying Social Security is unconstitutional and ought to go back to the states.  Romney is shaky here.  He's not accurately quoting Perry and is twisting what he said.  Someone needs to ask Mitt when he changed his mind; he said the same thing in his own book.

Perry's stance is that things have changed in all these years and it needs reform.  Romney hammers him and pushes him on the "unconstitutional" thing.  Perry wins this argument.

Romney continues to hammer.  Perry finally quotes Romney's own book to him to great applause.  Blitzer finally goes to Ron Paul who says young people should be able to get out and "go on their own."

Herman Cain:  "It's broken."  He touts optional personal accounts.  "Allow younger workers to have personal retirement accounts as an option.  Seniors would not be affected."

Huntsman:  "I don't think anything should be off the table."

Newt:  LOL!  "President Obama scares" the people "every single day" so he isn't worried about Mitt and Perry scaring the people with the word Ponzi scheme.

He says "You get back to a full employment economy" to fix Social Security and he says if you're younger and you'd like a personal account, you should be able to do that.

Santorum:  Blitzer asks "are you with Romney or Perry?"  He says, "The question is, Who is with ME?"  Applause.  The teenager is sitting here.  He says, "This guy isn't winning anything.  Nobody knows who he is."  The oracle.

7:26:  Next question is about balancing the budget.  Wolf paraphrases it because he's the smartest person in the room.   Newt challenges the Super Committee on this question.  Santorum gets challenged on the prescription drug vote (he voted for it).  Would you repeal it?  Wolf asks.  "We have to pay for it," Santorum says.  He says Washington doesn't "know better than you" how to run your health care.

Wolf:  Would you vote to repeal the prescription drug benefit?  to Perry.  He says no, you can find the savings and still deliver the services.  And touts his Texas record.  "I'm thinkin' there might be more waste and fraud in the federal government than there was in the Texas government."

Mitt:  Reform.  He says we're not going to balance the budget by taking out the waste.  We need to cut spending, he says.  Plus, we  have to "grow the economy again."

Ron Paul on the repeal: " It wouldn't be on my high list."  We spend too much money on wars, he says.  (The teenager applauds.)  "We need to cut the Department of Education, the Department of Energy..."  applause.

7:37:  Next question is about getting the economy moving again.   Again, Wolf clarifies the question because he's brilliant.

Oh.  Jon Huntsman is here.  He's orange.

To Perry -"Obama had $800 billion worth of stimulus and created zero jobs.  $400 billion in this package.  I can do the math on this one - half of zero jobs is ... zero jobs."  Snickers in the audience.  "Quit the spending, give clear regulatory relief and reform the tax code."

Wolf argues about the Bush tax cuts.  Bachmann says the deficit went up and up and up because you have a trillion dollars worth of spending that you aren't paying for.  She said she did not advocate raising the debt ceiling.

Herman Cain - "this economy is on life support.  We need a bold solution...I believe we throw out the entire tax code and put in my 9-9-9 tax code!"  He's fighting hard!

Cain says American entrepreneurship will provide the jobs.

Mitt concedes Texas is a "terrific state."  He's not cutting Perry and credit though.  Mitt says we have to make our tax code competitive with the rest of the world.  We need energy security.  Perry is nodding.  Balance the budget, Mitt says.  Wolf asks if Perry deserves any credit at all.  Mitt says sure.  Wolf says, tell him.  Fast on his feet - Mitt says, "If you're dealt four aces that doesn't mean you're a good poker player."  The audience goes "OOOooooooooo."

Perry - "Mitt, you were doin' pretty good until you started talkin poker."  He touts his Texas record of job creation during tough economic times.  He touts tort reform.  "Tell the trial lawyers to get out of your state."  Applause.  (I guess no trial lawyers are there.)

Ron Paul isn't willing to give Perry any credit either and says his taxes have doubled under Perry and says most of the jobs have been government jobs.

I'm afaid my 19 year old is going to vote for Ron Paul.

Back to Perry - We've cut taxes by $14 billion while I've been governor.  Texas population has increase over the past five years.  "They're not comin' because we're over taxin' 'em."

To Newt:  He looks incredulous.  Newt just answers whatever he wants to despite what is asked.  "The American people create jobs, not government."  Applause.  "Ronald Reagan taught me a great lesson if you have democrats in charge.  Go to the American people on principle" and have them educate their congressmen.

Next question.  Can you be pro-business and pro-worker at the same time?

Cain.  Absolutely.  But we need the right leadership. 

Huntsman.  "This country needs more workers."  Didn't Marco Rubio say that?  Huntsman touts his record in Utah.  "We were the best managed state in America."

7:55:  Next question.  What is your position on the Federal Reserve.

Someone ask about immigration, please.

Santorum says the economy would have to improve greatly to be a disaster.  Gets a laugh.

Cain says the Reserve should be audited and its focus should be narrowed.

Bachmann on Perry's statement that Bernanke should be tried for treason.  She says she wouldn't renominate Bernanke.  Mitt smiles condescendingly at her.  Wolf presses her on the treason comment.  She says, "That's for Governor Perry to make that decision."

Perry clarifies:  "If you are allowing the Federal Reserve to be used for political purposes, that is almost treasonous."   Applause.  And Mitt smiles condescendingly at Perry.  I guess that's just Mitt.

Romney:  My own view is that the fed should preserve our currency.  "People will not invest in this country...if they don't have faith in our currency."  Mitt says if we don't have a Federal Reserve who will control our currency?  "Congress?"!

Next question:  Out of every dollar I earn, how much do you think I deserve to keep?  Bachmann - "oooo I love that question!"

Huntsman answers first and calls for a competitive tax code.

Newt slams GE on his answer.  "I was astonished the other night" to see the president of GE sitting there during the president's speech!   Trying to raise taxes at this time is a bad idea.

Question:  Would any of you be willing to support the Fair Tax?

Wolf clarifies the question:  "The Fair Tax is basically a national sales tax."

Romney says the way the Fair Tax has been structured has a real question.  His answer gets some Boos.  He wants to dramatically reduce the tax burden on middle class.  "Let people save their money" as they see fit, he says.

Question:  Under what circumstances should a president sign an executive order?

Paul says the ExO has been abused.

Perry gets a Gardisil question and says he would do it differently, "absolutely."

Bachmann is, of course, totally against the Gardisil issue; Perry has already backed off of it so...; she says you "don't get a mulligan."

Wolf presses Perry on Gardisil.  He says there was an "opt out" but at the end of the day, "I'm always going to err on the side of life."  Bachmann says, "We cannot forget...there was a big drug company that made millions of dollars because of this mandate."  Crony capitalism.

Perry:  "The company was Merck.  It was a $5,000 contribution I received from them.  If you're saying I can be bought for $5,000, I'm offended."  Bachmann says, I'm offended for all the little girls who had to get that vaccination.  Good comeback by her.

Santorum says Perry is not sorry for the vaccine, just sorry about how he did it.

Perry says Texas is a place that protects life and he's been the most pro-life governor in the state of Texas.  Santorum says "Give parents the opt IN, then."

Next question is about health care and the cost of health care so health insurance can be reduced.  Cain says to repeal Obamacare.

Romney stands by RomneyCare.  He says the reason health care is expensive is because of the cost of providing care.  The more the provider does, the more he gets paid.  We have to make sure individuals care about what things cost.

He says again he's going to grant a waiver for all 50 states on ObamaCare.

Romney:  The Democrat president cut Medicare!  What the president did was simply WRONG!  But he still touts RomneyCare for his state.

To Ron Paul:, Blitzer asks who would pay for 30 year man with no insurance in a coma:  "In a society where you accept welfarism and socialism he would expect the government would pay for that."    We should legalize alternative health care, he says.

Bachmann:  Waivers and Executive Orders "won't cut it."  She says no state should be able to force anyone to buy health care.  "It's unconstitutional."  She says, "2012 is IT!"  If you don't stop it now, we're totally screwed.  "We are never going to get rid of it unless you have a president willing to get rid of it."  She vows she "is committed" to repealing ObamaCare.  Applause.

Commercial.

Here is the link to CNN's live blog.

8:24:  New question.  "What would you do to remove the illegal immigrants from our country?"  Santorum says "I'm the son of an Italian immigrant." He says we have an unsecure border and need a fence.  We don't need storm troopers or amnesty.  After the border is secure, we can deal with the problem.

Perry says he's had a lot of experience with this and that our government "has been an abject failure" at securing the border.  Says a fence is dumb (my words); he said "not reality".  "We understand and know how to secure that border but we can't do it alone but the federal government has to step up and do their constitutional duty" to secure the voter.

Wolf wants to know how you'll get the Hispanic vote.  Santorum says Perry offered in-state tuition.  Open door.  Answer that, Rick.

Santorum:  We are a melting pot, not a salad bowl.

Wolf goes back to Perry:  He says, If you've been in the state of Texas 3 years, if you're workin' toward your college degreee and if you're on on the path to citizenship, you get in-state tuition there.   He gets boo'd.

Bachmann says this is not the American way to reward people who have broken our laws.  Come in legally.  Learn to speak English, the Constitution and American History, she says.

Perry:  "I'm not for the DREAM Act they are talking about in D.C.; that is Amnesty."  Says what he did in Texas is a states right issue.  If you want to live in Texas and pursue citizenship, "we're going to allow you to be contributing members" to the state of Texas and not a drag on society.

Huntsman:  "For Rick to say you can't secure the border is a treasonous comment."  I think that was a joke.

Huntsman was asked about the drivers license issue for illegals.  He touts the 10th Amendment.

Romney:  Latino voters did not come here for a handout.  If they came here for a handout, they'll vote for Democrats.  He says, "Of course we build a fence.  And of course we don't give in-state tuition credits to people who come here illegally!"  Applause.

Perry:  We basically had a decision to make.  Are we going to give people an incentive to be contributing members of society or are we going to put you on the government dole...in the state of Texas...we decided it was in the best interest of those young people to have the opportunity to go on to college. .."  He sounds flustered but he should have been ready for this.

Next question is about energy independence.  To Herman Cain:  "We've got to remove some of those barriers out of the way...I would start with the EPA Gone Wild...".  He says he'd appoint people who've been abused by the EPA to the Regulatory Commission.

On national security:  Newt says we greatly underestimate the threat to this country and we should never forget the threat of foreign terrorists.  Cites North Korea and Iran.  We need a serious national dialogue on security and says there's a civil war in Mexico right next door to us.

Ron Paul says there's a difference between military spending and defense spending.  He says slash military spending but not defense spending.  "We're in 130 countries!" he says.  We don't have to be the policemen of the world, he says.

Ron Paul says the Muslim world "is not" attacking us because we're free.  He says it's because we have bases on their soil and that they said we haven't been fair to the Palestinians.  He gets boo'd.

Question:  A lady from Afghanistan asks what they would do to secure safety for the women and children if Afghanistan from the radicals.

Huntsman says it's time to get out of Afghanistan.  We don't need to be nation building.  We're dim bulbs he says.  He's blathering about shining lights.  Al Gore bulbs, probably.  No, wait...

To Perry:  Is our money well spent in Afghanistan?  He says we should come home but have a presence there.  He says our military has a target on their back in Afghanistan; their own military needs to take care of their people.

Commericial.  Oh no.  A "This or That" coming up.  Wolf promises a "What would they add to the White House if they get to move in" question.  Groan.

8:50:  To Santorum.  What would you bring to the White House?  A vegetable garden?  A horse shoe track?  He says, "A bedroom."  They have 7 kids.

Newt says he'd kick out the czars, and have more music, ballet, and chess sets.

Paul:  Common sense and a course in economics.

Perry:  The most beautiful first lady this country has ever seen.  Awwww!

Romney:  He'd restore the Churchill bust.

Bachmann:  A copy of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Cain:  A sense of humor because America is too uptight.

Huntsman:  My Harley Davidson.

Perry won that question!

Well, okay.  Perry didn't lose, but he didn't gain much.  They hammered him on the Gardisil issue and I don't think he impressed the Tea Party audience with his answers on the in-state tuition issue.  I think he should have been more prepared for that question but he seemed actually flummoxed that people don't think the way he does on it.

Bachmann held steady and was more of a presence than she was in the last debate.  I think it's just Perry and Romney now and the rest are just background veep contenders.  Romney didn't lose any ground but I don't think he gained any either.  He's definitely willing to go after Perry on the issues, though.  It should get more interesting as the field narrows.  When Perry and Romney actually go head to head we might get somewhere.

Now, I hear there's a football game on, so I'm out.

The Republican Debate (UPDATED and OUT)

I'm ready.

And we begin with Rick Perry touting his record in Texas.  He says 95% of all jobs he's created have been above minimum wage.

Romney's first question deals with his own jobs record.  It's dismal.  Romney is somehow trying to defend it and says he's created more jobs in Massachusetts than Obama has created in the entire nation.  He's got a tiny jab at "career politicians" in his response.  Romney touts his economic chops while jabbing career politicians.

Perry's rebuts with a criticism of Romney's jobs record; Romney's rebuttal of Perry's rebuttal explains the differences between Texas and his own state.

It's the Perry/Romney show.  They've both done their homework and come out firing.

7:15:  Herman Cain has the first laugh line with his 9-9-9 plan on taxes.  "If 10% is good enough for God, 9% should be good enough for the federal government!" 

And they're all firing at Perry.  Huntsman touts his own jobs record in Utah.  He also touts his "world" experience.  "I've lived overseas four times..." and can speak Chinese.

Bachmann's first spiel has to do with Obamacare killing jobs and her experience as a foster mom.  "Kids need jobs."

7:20:  Ron Paul.  Who does he sound like?  Some cartoon character but I can't put my finger on it.

Newt addresses Perry's book Fed Up!  He's not interested in plugging the book right now (though he wrote the forward).  He wants, instead, to talk about more serious issues.  Newt jabs Obama and says "he's so committed to class warfare" that he can't possibly be interested in forming jobs.  Applause.

Gotta love live TV; the clip of Romney they had cued up doesn't work.

The question is about Romneycare and the individual mandate.  Romney says, "I understand health care pretty darned well...." and promises an executive order on Day One to grant waivers from Obamacare.  He beats Perry to the punch who said in South Carolina that on day one he would issue an executive order repealing as much of ObamaCare as he could.

Perry's response is that Medicaid needs to be "block granted" back to the states and says the federal government needs to get out of the way.  This seems to be his answer to everything.  He's got to do better than that.  And Perry gets to deliver his Executive Order line on wiping out ObamaCare.

Moderators want to know why so many in TX are un-insured.  Perry doesn't exactly answer as best I can tell.  He dodges.

Why is Jon Huntsman orange?

7:30: Bachmann is dying to get into this.  "Obamacare took over 1/6th of the American economy" she says and insists than an executive order is pretty much meaningless.  "It will take a very strong leader," she says.  She is correct that if we fail to repeal Obamacare in 2012 "it will be with us forever."

Newt:  "I'm not interested in your effort to get Republicans fighting each other."  Amen.

Newt:  "Every person up here understands Obamacare is a disaster."  And he goes on to bash Obama other than other Republicans.  Point to Newt.  Amen! Newt says he will "repudiate every effort" by the media to pit Republicans against each other in order to protect Barack Obama.  AMEN!!!

7:35: Ron Paul is digging around in his pockets while Herman Cain goes on about HillaryCare, ObamaCare and RomneyCare.

Santorum.  Oh!  He's here?  Okay.  A welfare system question and do you care about poor people.  Hunh?

Perry:  "The best thing we can do in this country for those who need help is create an economy where those who work hard" can take care of themselves.

Oh joy.  Twitter questions.  To Romney a question about gas prices.  His response is to quit buying foreign oil.  "We've got to develop our oil, our gas...our clean coal...".  Yep we can have an impact, he says, but he won't promise $2.00 per gallon like Bachmann did.  "He keeps talkin' about green jobs.  Where are they?!"

Bachmann:  "Energy is one of the greatest opportunities for job creation we have!"

Huntsman says $2.00 predictions aren't realistic.  Ron Paul wipes his nose.

To Ron Paul:  Do you advocate getting rid of the minimum wage?  "Absolutely."  Ron Paul, "I'm a physician but you sure weren't gonna ask me a medical question."

"Medicare - isn't THAT a mandate?" he says.

Paul promises a gallon of gas for a silver dime (which is worth $3.50).

Rick Perry and Ron Paul go toe to toe now.  Perry mentions the letter Ron Paul wrote to Reagan telling him he was going to drop out of the Republican party because of what Reagan believed in.  Paul says he supported the message of Reagan but the consequence was "not all that great.  Huge deficits in the 80s."

7:50:   To Perry.  The Social Security question.  "Explain your view...".  Perry acknowledges that Social Security can't be changed now.  How to change it going forward is his focus.  "Men and women who are receiving those benefits today....or those nearing retirement...don't have anything to worry about."  But he insists still "it is a Ponzi scheme."  He's right - it's true.

Perry:  "Karl has been over the top for a long time in his remarks.  I'm not responsible for Karl anymore," in reference to Rove's comments on Perry's Social Security position.

To Romney, another Social Security question.  Romney agrees that the funding isn't working.  Romney jabs at Perry who had said "Social Security is a failure."  Romney says it isn't.  Romney insinuates that Perry wants to "abolish" Social Security.  I don't think that's what Perry said; he wants reform, not abolishment.

Perry:  "You cannot keep the status quo in place and call it anything else but a Ponzi scheme."

Herman Cain is sick of the "rhetoric" and offers a solution of personal retirement accounts: the Chilean system, he says.

Ron Paul is asked about Perry's record.  All this pitting one Republican against the other.  Bleh.  Paul discusses the HPV vaccine.  "This is not good medicne," he says.  "It is not good social policy."  Paul says he didn't even know that governors in Texas could pass legislation with executive orders and says as president he will NOT use executive orders "to pass laws."

Perry says he feels like "a pinata."  Welcome to front-runner status.

He says "we allowed for an opt-out" in the HPV program. 

Santorum is offended by the Gardisil program.  "Instead of an opt-out, how about an opt-in."

Romney almost defends Perry here, acknowledging that Perry's "heart was in the right place" and should have done it differently.  Says Obama "doesn't have a clue" how to fix this country.

On to the TSA:  Ron Paul call the TSA agents abusive and the airports a monstrosity.  He bashes FEMA.

8:05:   Herman Cain:  "Don't eliminate FEMA, let's FIX FEMA" and Homeland Security.  Cain says the federal government is "not good at micro-managing anything" and touts states rights.

Huntsman's hands aren't orange; why is his face?

"I just want to point out..." with his pale fingers...

To Perry:  Your state is a miserable failure in high school graduation rates.  Why did you cut education?

His response?  Texas has made great progress in the 10 years I've been governor and our graduation rate is 84%.  "We're makin' progress."  He says Texas has a unique situation by "sharing a border with Mexico."  So that's why they get in-state tuition for college?  Someone ask him that, please?

Race to the Top:  Newt likes charter schools.   He'd like a Pell grant for k-12 so everyone has choice.

8:10  For border security, Perry wants "boots on the ground...aviation assets in the air," and secure the border before you deal with immigration reform.  "It is NOT safe on that border," Perry says.

To Romney - "We got to have a fence."  And agents.  Romney says, yep, they can get a ladder, but we've left "the magnet on," i.e, incentives.  Like tuition breaks!  Romney opens the door.

"We can NOT give amnesty to illegals" says Romney.  We have too many waiting to get in legally, he says.

Oh come on.  Go back to Perry on that!  But no, to Newt - discussing Reagan's policy.  "We ought to control the border, have a legal guest worker program...." be tough on employers, make English the official language of government, and insist that they learn American History.  And we have to find a way to deal with those folks that have been here , some for 25 years.

Oh.  Santorum is still here.  He's the son of an Italian immigrant. 

Bachmann:  "In Mexico right now we're dealing with narco-terrorists."  I think all the Republicans agree that the border must be secured.  Either challenge Perry on the tuition question or move on.

Huntsman says Reagan felt immigration was "a human issue" and that we should look at it that way, then he attempts to channel Reagan and tell us what Reagan would say if he were here.

8:20:   Ron Paul says American a not about fences, barbed wire, machine guns, and ID cards.  A fence is "to keep us in!"  Paranoid much?

8:30:  Perry is for cap, cut and balance.  Something about cutting off the snake's head.   And now Bachmann channel's Reagan and says he would be for it too. 

Romney:  "We have an absence of leadership" and explains Obama's lack of experience prior to the election.  He says he's "put together an outline" to get America back on track - everything from energy policy to trade policy, etc.

Back to Perry - a question on national security:  "I don't think America needs to be in the business of adventurism."  On Obama, Perry commends him for maintaining "the chase" on Osama.  Also, "He has proven for once and for all that government spending won't create one job."  In addition, "He kept Gitmo open," against the wishes of his base. 

To Bachmann - a Libya question.  "Are you advocating a shift away from the George W. Bush Freedom Agenda?"  Bachmann says Obama has weakened us militarily.  She says it was wrong to go into Libya.

8:40:  Santorum dislikes "the isolationist" view he sees on the stage.  He says Obama was indecisive and confused on Libya and only went along with it because the UN told him to.  Invokes Reagan. 

A bizarre question to Huntsman about "crazy and inane statements" and attempts to pit him against other Republicans on the stage.  Huntsman says "we can't run from science," and "we can't run from mainstream conservative philosophy."  Global warming?  Really?

Heh - Huntsman:  "I can get elected."  Okay.

Perry on global warming:  "I do agree that ...the science is not settled on this,"...but that we shouldn't put the American economy in jeopardy on "science that is not settled yet." 

"Find out what the science truly is before you put the American economy in jeopardy," Perry says.

He touts the Texas clean air actions.  Nitrous oxide and ozone levels down.

Bachmann says that tomorrow night "the nation won't be seeing permanent solutions," but instead more gimmicks.  Agreed.

Newt says he would fire Bernanke tomorrow.  I tell you, Newt livens up a dull debate.  He tells it like it is.  He blows off questions they've asked and answers whatever he wants to.  He's by far the best speaker.  Not electable but a good debater. 

Romney:  "I don't want to raise taxes on the American people."  He says the middle class is the population most hurt by the Obama economy.  "No tax on interest, dividends, or capital gains," he says.  He's a negative on Bernanke as well.

To Perry on the death penalty - (and applause when his total of executions was announced).  Perry says, No, he hasn't lost any sleep over that and explains the appeals process.  You "will face the ultimate justice in the state of Texas" if you kill one of "our citizens."  More applause.  "When you have committed heinous crimes against one of our citizens," you will face the ultimate justice.  The audience likes this.

8:50:  Ron Paul gets a question about free lunch and feeding poor school children.  He resists the accusations that if you don't support the welfare state you aren't compassionate.  Applause.


And done.  So who won?  I'd have to say Newt.  Romney continued to fly under the radar while still getting a few early jabs in at Perry.  Perry stayed true to script and used a lot of the same lines I heard him use in South Carolina and in his book.  Santorum and Cain seem to struggle for attention and when Bachmann doesn't get called on she tries to jump in.  Nobody screwed up or gaffed, as far as I could see.  But Newt seemed to have the most commanding presence.

I was anxious to see how Perry would do as his first debate.  I think Perry is vulnerable on a couple of issues, immigration being one.  I haven't seem him pressed or challenged on that in-state tuition issue which concerns a lot of conservatives.  He took a couple of hits on it tonight as others insisted that the incentives for illegals be removed.  He has to come up with a response to that.

He's also vulnerable on the Social Security issue although I do agree with him that it is a Ponzi scheme.  If you're using today's payments to pay current recipients, and the number of people paying into Social Security is decreasing, as it is, then there is no guarantee that the money you're paying into it will be there when you need it.  That's the very definition of a Ponzi scheme. 

Perry will need to articulate better his message of reform because what people are hearing is "abolish."

Mark me as still undecided.  Lots of time left.

Paul Ryan Isn't Running

I can't say that this surprises me.  I like Paul Ryan but I just didn't see him getting the nomination right now.  Plus, he's been very clear in the past about not wanting to run.  My position has always been that he's too "wonky" for that battle and that he's happier where he is.  So far as I know, he has no executive experience at all, and it's very difficult to get elected from the House.

Yes, yes, I know.  Obama had no experience either, but I think this time, as screwed up as things are, voters might be ready for a grownup in the Oval Office.  Not that Ryan isn't, but he is, for now, serving us better where he is.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Palin is about to get in there.  That will make things interesting; I can't wait to see Palin and Perry go head to head on the issues.  Heh!