Live-Blogging the South Carolina Debate UPDATED

We're just getting started.  Stay tuned.

Update 1:   We begin with Newt trying to defend his negative attacks on Romney after vowing not to go negative.  Romney defends by touting his private sector record.  If an Olympics reference is on your bingo card, DRINK.

Update 2:  A "vulture capitalism" question to Rick Perry.  DRINK.   Perry seems a little stiff.  He's calling on Mitt to release his income tax records and gets applause.  Perry calls for the repeal of Dodd-Frank and when he says we have way too many regulations in this country he gets lots of applause.

Romney gets a chance to respond but says he needs more than 30 seconds.  Uh, okay.

Update 3:  Romney:  "You never want to see anyone lose a job."  That ought to play well with his "I like to be able to fire people," comment.  Context or not.   Romney dodged the call for his tax records, by the way.  Why is that?  What's he hiding?

Update 4:   Shift to Ron Paul who comes out swinging on Santorum by explaining he couldn't hit Santorum on everything he wanted to in one single ad.  Ouch.  Santorum says he voted for NCLB and "I shouldn't have."  On right to work, Santorum says he supports it.

Juan Williams asks Santorum if "barbed personal attacks" should be abandoned.  Dumb question.  Santorum hits Romney with question about a negative ad his PAC ran.  Romney dodges the question from Santorum and says "We've got plenty of time, I'll get to it when I want to."  The crowd is applauding Santorum who is really drawing blood here.  "It's MLK day!" he says.  The question is about felons being allowed to vote.  "I don't believe that people who have committed violent crimes should be allowed to vote again," Romney says.

Santorum calls him on it.  Bam!

Santorum is relentless on this and Mitt is stuttering. 

Update 5:  Perry just stuck them both by pointing out that the "Washington insiders" need to get out of it and let the states decide.  Applause.

Update 6:  Fox sets Romney up give a summary of his "conservative" positions.  He's pro-life, he says, against gay marriage, believes in freedom and free enterprise, on and on and on.  Oh, and not a flip-flopper.  Yeah, okay.

Juan to Perry on the voter ID law in South Carolina.  Are you suggesting on this MLK day that the federal government should not scrutinize the voting laws in states where blacks were once denied the right to vote?

Perry's response is that the federal government should stay out of it and pulls the right to work issue into it as well.  He says this administration is at war against religion too, for that matter.  Strong answer by Perry, I think.  "South Carolina is at war against the federal government."  Huge applause, too.

Update 7:  When asked how long someone should be able to draw unemployment checks, Newt says it should all be tied to a training program.  "99 weeks is an Associates Degree!" he says, to applause.  Newt just called Obama "the food stamp president."  Heh!

Update 8: Romney:  our tax rates are too high and regulations too burdensome.  We have an energy policy that doesn't take advantage of our natural resources.  This president has opened no new markets around the world.  Bailouts aren't the answer.

To Ron Paul a defense cuts question:  "what do you say to people in this state" that worry that your positions will cost jobs?  Paul says we would not be weaker under his policies and says he gets lots of donations from active military.  "There's a difference between military spending and defense spending," Paul points out.  Building embassies is not defense spending "it's waste," he says. 

What is the highest federal income tax any American should have to pay?
Flat tax - Perry
25% - Romney
15% - Newt
0% - Ron Paul

Question to Mitt:  "Will you release your income tax records?"  Romney says he looked at what other candidates like Bush and Reagan did, they released in April.  He'll probably do that in April, then.  He's stammering on this a bit.  "What's happened in history is that people released them in April and that's what I'll probably do."

Update 9:  Why is every question from Juan Williams race related?  He's asking Ron Paul now about disparate numbers between arrested blacks and whites.

Next he goes to Newt and asks if he could be perceived as anti-black.  "Only the elites despise earning money," he says.  Juan says people of all races ask him if Newt's comments are "anti-poor."  Juan gets boo'd.  "It sounds as if you're trying to belittle people," when you use the term "food stamp president," Juan says.  Newt schools him on political correctness and using uncomfortable facts.  The crowd stands and applauds.

Juan should be under the desk about now.

Update 10:  Ron Paul gets to spend a long time rambling about his foreign policy position.  He sounds nuts.

Newt is strong on the Bin Laden question - "He's not a Chinese dissident!"; in other words, you kill your enemies.

Going to Romney after Paul only makes Romney sound more sensible.  A run over dog would sound more sensible than Ron Paul when he gets cranked up on "all these WARS!!!"

Mitt says we "absolutely not" negotiate with the Taliban.  "We should not negotiate with the Taliban, we should defeat the Taliban!"

Update 11: Rick Santorum does not support a military mission into Syria but wants the international community to help remove Assad.

To Rick Perry:  "Does Turkey still belong in NATO?"

He advocates cutting foreign aid to zero.  "Our president has a foreign policy that makes our allies very nervous and emboldens our enemies."  I'm not sure he answered that question, exactly.

Perry has mentioned his military service several times in this debate.  Somehow the marine urination video comes up here.  He blasts Biden for calling those Marines despicable, and he says "Let me tell you what is despicable: cutting Danny Pearl's head off" is despicable.  Hanging our contractors from bridges is despicable, he says.  Applause.  Perry suggests that this administration has strong disdain for our military.

Update 12:  When asked if he would have signed the national defense act as written, Mitt says yes.  He gets boo'd.

Pivot to the housing market - Perry basically says to get the federal government out of it.

To Newt - a Social Security question.  The Chilean model comes back out.

Update 13: Santorum and Newt duke it out on Social Security.  Santorum calls Newt's privatization "irresponsible" right now.  Newt defends the personal savings account model.  Draw.

Romney agrees with Santourm:  "Rick is right," he says.

Update 14:  A gun owners question for Romney from Juan.  No race baiting on this one.  "How can you convince gun owners you will be an advocate for them?"   Mitt says he's signed pro-gun legislation in his state.  He disagrees with new legislation and does not believe in new laws restricting gun use and gun owners.  Juan asks Mitt if he's gone hunting since '07.  Yep - elk hunting, he says.  Heh - Romney says Rick Perry is probably a more serious hunter than he is.  Perry agrees.

Update 15:   Santorum attacks Ron Paul on gun liability.  Sigh.

Woah.  Newt just jabbed Romney saying if he can't control his SuperPAC "it makes you wonder how much influence he would have as president."  Random.

Final update:  We end with Romney disavowing SuperPacs and Perry vowing to secure the border.  Who won this one?  Man.  Tough one.  They all had strong moments.  To my mind, though, this is the first time Romney took any hits.  Perry continues to improve.  Newt was strong as was Santorum. 

Glad it's over. 

Heigh ho - there's another damn debate this week! Thursday?   Good grief.

Live-Blogging the New Hampshire Debate

Start up in a couple of minutes.

Update 1:   You can watch on ABC's site if you've got NFL on your TV!

Mitt comes out swinging on Obama blaming him for the jobless rate.  Santorum points to Iran as "the most pressing issue today," but I'd bet all those jobless people think the economy is the most pressing issue.

Newt defends free enterprise.

Stephanopoulos questions Mitt's jobs created numbers.

Huntsman says his record in Utah is better than Perry's in Texas.  Why is he going after Perry who is floundering in the polls?  Romney says having jobs experience is necessary to creating jobs (something Obama wouldn't know about).

Ron Paul rises to Stephanopoulos's bait and goes after Rick Santorum as a "big government person."

Santorum:  "I'm a conservative, I'm not a libertarian."  Defends his record as protecting the interests of his state.  Ron Paul comes back and accuses Santorum again of being a big government person.

Is Rick Perry here?

Update 2:  Ah, here comes Perry.  After the Ron Paul/Rick Santorum bickering, Perry cites too much Washington insider experience;  Perry says with the exception of Huntsman, he's probably the only outsider in the race.

Ron Paul attacks Santorum for voting to increase the national debt.  Santorum is on shaky ground, I think, trying to defend increasing the debt ceiling.

Diane Sawyer jumps in with a national security question.  She goes to Huntsman with a question on Iran.  "Why would you be better as commander in chief than anyone else on this stage," she asks.  Huntsman says his was the best managed state in America and he created jobs.  It's all about trust, he says.  Americans don't trust their leaders anymore.

Sawyers continues the baiting and offers Huntsman the chance to go after "someone on this stage," but he refuses.

Same question to Romney who says that anyone can do better than Obama.  He cites Obama's total lack of experience upon election and he's made one error after another.  He's blasting Obama on his Iran policy.  "This is a failed presidency."

Romney refuses to attack his fellow candidates.

To Perry:  "Do you believe that having worn the uniform of our country better prepares you" to be president?  Perry says yep and then pivots back to Iran.  You cannot cut one trillion dollars from America's defense budget and believe that we won't be compromised, he says.  Obama simply doesn't understand the military.  Excellent answer. 

Newt cites his father's military service and his experience growing up in a military family.  About veterans, Newt says, "I feel for veterans." 

Ron Paul comes after Newt for his military deferments and Newt gets rankled.  Accuses Paul of being dishonest. "Newt:  I wasn't eligible for the draft."

Paul gets asked about the newsletters and he says it has already been explained.

Ron Paul turns this question into some civil rights, Rosa Parks moment and says blacks are disproportionately arrested and sent to death row.  The drug laws are "unfairly enforced" he says.

Commercial.

Update 3:   Why in the world are they spending so much time on the right to contraceptives?

This debate doesn't seem to be firing well; the candidates are seldom sure what the question is and end up answering about whatever topic they want to answer.

Diane Sawyer tries to lead them into the gay marriage issue.  Huntsman is all for civil unions which "add dignity" to a relationship.  Romney stands by his position that marriage is between a man and a woman.  He says children will be better off if they're raised in a setting with a male and a female.

Newt seems disgusted that they've spent so much time on "these issues," and takes off on media bias and the Catholic church.

Did Romney just say that John Adams wrote the Constitution?  Hunh?
  
Update 4:   Santorum gets schooled by Ron Paul for interrupting him.  I don't mean to be petty, really, but I could not stand four years of listening to Ron Paul's whiny voice.

Ah.  Perry is still here.  On third party candidates, Perry rejects that question and opts to answer someone else's gay marriage question.  He blasts this administration for its war on religion.

Jon Huntsman says the Taliban is no longer in power.  For now.

Newt runs through all of the foreign policy pitfalls that lie ahead and paints a scary picture.

Santorum fires back at Obama on foreign policy; the moderators continue to bait the candidates against each other.  The candidates need to reject the baiting and stay focused on Obama.

Update 5:  Perry says he would sent troops back into Iraq.  Ooops.   He says "this president just wants to cowtow to his liberal leftist base."  He says Iran will move back in and all our efforts will have been done for nothing.

That won't help him in the polls any.

Newt says if you're worried about the Iranians in Iraq then deal with Iran.  Good point.

I'm not loving this debate.  No questions on Fast 'n Furious; little discussion of the economy.  Baiting and pitting the candidates against each other.

Update 6:   Mitt Romney hasn't taken any hits at all tonight.

Diane Sawyer is warming up to a jobs question about investing in infrastructure and economic growth.  Yawn...Romney is all for it.  Like, who wouldn't be?  He points out that government doesn't create jobs.

I'm sure Perry is itching to get in on this question.  After his send troops back to Iraq bomb, he needs to do some damage control.

Newt says you can't compete with China if you don't have a decent infrastructure.  He supports and energy program that breaks us free from foreign oil and would invest some of those proceeds to infrastructure.

Huntsman is off on the tax code tangent and supports Simpson-Bowles. 

Romney suggests we are "only inches away from no longer being a free economy."  The middle class has been hurt in the Obama economy, he says.  Simpson-Bowles becomes Bowles-Simpson under Mitt Romney, who also supports it but does not support raising capital gains taxes.

Rick Perry is being ignored again.  Still.  Huntsman is getting much more airtime than Perry.

Update 7:   Perry finally throws himself into the debate by answering a question when not called upon.  He spins off his "get America workin' again" spiel and gets applause.

Huntsman seems to be getting more air time than anyone else.

Romney rejects a question from the moderator and blasts the moderators, gently, about not being focused on the important issues, like the fate of America.   He's off on an apparently untimed speech about what America needs and how we don't need to be like Europe.  He's hammering Obama pretty eloquently.  Score for Mitt.

Mitt gets applause at the end of his speech.

Update 8:  Newt tries to land some hits on Romney saying Romney's plan is a little cautious and not as bold as his own.

Santorum seconds that.

Santorum rejects the term "middle-class" and says there are "no classes in America."  Hunh?  His bigger point is about not waging class warfare but it is awkwardly stated.

Romney blasts Obama for not opening up trade; he's defending his growth plan and insists it is bolder than they give him credit for.  Cites his business experience and his knowledge of regulations.  He steals Rick Perry's line and says he will "get America workin' again."

Shocker.  Back to Huntsman.  More air time than anyone so far.

Update 9: Romney interrupts Huntsman and says uh, excuse me, but you were working for Obama, dude.  China is hacking into our systems, manipulating their currency, stealing patents from us, and you were right there.  Ouch.  If I'm president I'm not going to spend my time talking about how great China is.

If you're playing the drinking game you just got the jackpot - Huntsman responded in Chinese.  Oh.My.God.

Update 10:  Close and wrap up now.  What else would you be doing if you were here tonight, is the question.  Perry:  At the shooting range.  Newt:  watching football.  Same for Santorum.  Ron Paul would be reading an economic textbook.  Huntsman would be on the phone with his two sons in the US Navy. 

Thankfully this horrid debate is over.  Too full of non-issues and too full of candidate baiting.  Nobody laid a glove on Romney, Perry was ignored, Huntsman got way too much air time for a non-contender nationally.  Santorum seemed a bit stiff and off his game.  Maybe that's just him, though.

When the highlight of the debate is Huntsman's Chinese, well, hell.  It's not good. 

Romney came off good when he blasted Huntsman for defending China and for his service for Obama. 

I rather missed Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann.

If you care, there's another debate on Meet the Press tomorrow.  I think I'll be skipping that one.  I've had enough.

Back to the Saints game now.

Iowa Caucus Day: News, Aggregation and Updates

Scroll for updates throughout the day.

Iowans are heading out to the caucuses tonight.  The weather is beautiful and should not be a factor in keeping folks from going out.  The governor of Iowa, Terry Branstad said on Fox News this morning that he is expecting record turnout.

One thing to remember about Iowa is that the percentage of people that go out and caucus is relatively small.  I have several family members in various parts of Iowa and I asked them about the phone calls and the caucuses.  Only one of them even knows anyone who actually goes to caucus.  All of them have been barraged by phone calls and most of those have been robocalls.  The robocalls are not particularly effective: it's easier to hang up on a computer than to a person.  As for support for a particular candidate, I got a variety of answers, including undecideds. 

That is the thing about this particular caucus event, I think, that is interesting.  There are so many undecideds.  This thing could be a blowout for one candidate or a photo finish among three.  Who knows?

Throughout the day I'll be posting updates and linking to others who are covering the event.

Legal Insurrection is doing the same thing and he will have a live event tonight.

Stacy McCain has been traveling through Iowa with the Santorum camp and he has terrific coverage and photos.

Real Clear Politics has an Iowa Caucus Primer on how the process works.

Here is Rick Perry's latest ad hammering Rick Santorum on earmarks.  Effective or no?



Stay tuned for updates.

If you're blogging the caucuses, let me know and I'll link you.

Update 1:  Yet another reason why the caucuses are so unpredictable:

Update 2:  Pirate's Cove has analysis of what comes after Iowa.  I don't necessarily agree with this, but we shall see:

By Wednesday, we could see Bachmann and Perry out, though they say they are going to South Carolina and bypassing New Hampshire. Santorum should survive. When it comes to Newt and Paul, we’ll have to see.

It will be interesting to see if the surge of volunteers that arrived Friday in support of Rick Perry pays off.   Also, Perry has the cash to stay in for a while.  I don't think Iowa will be his Waterloo.

Update 3:  Megyn Kelly is broadcasting today from the Iowa state capitol building.  It's one of the most beautiful state capitol buildings I've ever seen.  Here's a YouTube video someone shot of the inside.  

And, speaking of looking past Iowa, the GOP brain trust is already considering VP candidates:

While over a dozen names were suggested by the strategists, some with the campaigns, four top the list: South Dakota Sen. John Thune and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, both surrogates for Romney, Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, the most talked-about Hispanic in Washington, and former Secretary of State Condi Rice.

Others receiving multiple votes were Ohio Sen. Rob Portman, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

"Romney is likely to have to go right," said one former Bush aide. "He'll need somebody to generate enthusiasm from the base. Rubio fits the bill."

What do you think?   They're writing off Santorum as the nominee, obviously, as assuming it's Mittens even before a single vote is cast.

Update 4:  The Des Moines Register has a handy guide and graphic to keep a vote tally.  But...notice the ad at the top of the page.  A glimpse of what is to come:

Update 5:  Rush Limbaugh replayed the audio of Perry's smack down of Mike Allen.  "This is NOT somebody stupid," he said.  Rush said, "I LIKE Rick Perry!"  Rick Perry makes him smile, he says.  Rush also said he LOVES Rick Santorum and says that any of these contenders would be great.  (Even Ron Paul?)

The Perry camp is fired up.  He gave a motivational speech to his volunteers this morning:

“This election is about stopping a president of the United States and his administration that is abusing the Constitution of this country, that is putting America on a track to bankruptcy, and folks, we’re going to take America back. That’s what this is about,” Perry told the crowd as it gave him a standing ovation. “It is a powerful moment in America’s history, and you are on the front lines.”

Of course, then he compared it to Omaha beach which is, I think, an unfortunate comparison.   He's trying to make the case that this is historic, critical even.   Considering the catastrophic losses on D-Day, this might be an overreach.

Update 6:  Ed Rollins, talking to Shepard Smith on Fox, says Michele Bachmanm will come in last tonight (no organization and no money, he says) and that the winners will be Romney and Ron Paul.  Santorum has momentum "but no organization" he says.  When asked about Rick Perry, Rollins says if Perry comes in 4th, he actually stands the best chance to challenge Romney because of his money and organization.  Perry may come in first or second in South Carolina.  "His campaign is very alive," he says.  Rollins says Perry has done a much better job than people recognize.  He doesn't see much for Santorum after Iowa.

As for Newt, Rollins says Newt isn't raising money and is going to have a hard time in New Hampshire.

Rollins predicts Ron Paul will stay in the race to the end and should be treated with respect, but there's no path to the win for him.

Update 7:  Ouch.  Stacy McCain:

"...the Perry campaign is a lamentable joke here in Iowa. I’ve been talking to experienced Iowa Republicans during my travels the past week, and experienced observers are united in the opinion that Perry has wasted millions of dollars on a campaign that has done him more harm than good."

Stacy is, of course, in the Santorum camp and is not a Perry fan as you can tell.

Update 8:  Left Coast Rebel has a live-updating event going on as well.

On Fox, Shep Smith talks to Debbie Wasserman Schultz who says the Republican field is "interchangeable" and "lackluster".   Shep points out Obama's broken promises and DSW says that is "simply not true."  She says he ended the Iraq war which was one of his promises.  He passed Obamacare, she says, yet Shep points out it isn't a single payer system that the base wanted.

The woman is delusional.  She says Obama has turned the economy around and that unemployment is declining.  The Republicans have embraced the Tea Party and "out right winged each other" throughout the campaign.

She says Obama will win "handily."

Silly.

Update 9:  Today's Gallup poll:

Update 10:  Rick Santorum's sweater vest is the new fashion icon.  You too can have a sweater vest:



Update 11:  Rick Perry's just released video:



(H/T: Pundette)

Update 12:  One of our local news stations is conducting its own "caucus," sort of like the Drudge Caucus, I guess.  The results so far?

Update13:  Michelle Malkin has a great Iowa caucus day post.

Phew. Are you ready? There are an estimated 614,000 active registered Republicans in Iowa. A small fraction of them will turn out tonight to vote in the first-in-the-nation GOP presidential caucus. The anticipated top three placers are a toss-up. Sunday’s PPP poll had it 20/19/18 for Paul, Romney and Santorum.

She links to Stacy McCain's Santorum coverage.  Both Malkin and Stacy are NOT Rick Perry fans which might explain why they don't link me. (Just kidding - Stacy has linked me often in the past.  It's been a while since I got a Malkin link.)

Update 14:   Rick Perry gets emotional during a speech today praising America's veterans:

Perry was joined on Tuesday by supporter Dan Moran, a Marine veteran who suffered third-degree burns on his body from a bomb explosion in Afghanistan. Perry, a former Air Force pilot, commended Nationwide for its focus on hiring veterans before turning to Moran.

“He understands the importance of selfless … selfless sacrifice,” Perry said with a pause, wiping a tear from his left eye.

Emotion.

Update 15:  As the caucus results come in, here is a live, interactive map.  And remember, Professor Jacobson will be hosting a live event. SIGIS will continue posts as well.  The Des Moines Register also has a place where you can watch results come in but you have to put up with all the Obama advertising on the page.

Update 16:  Here is a timeline of the upcoming primaries.  Next event:  January 10 - New Hampshire.

Update 17:  I'm closing out this post now and heading over to Legal Insurrection to participate in his live event.  Follow me over there.   And thanks for stopping by this post today!  I appreciate it.

Caucus Crash Course

If you're wondering how the Iowa caucuses work, The Washington Times has a primer for you:

Only registered Republicans may participate, but with an ID that shows Iowa residency and age, voters can register at door, allowing for crossover participation. Democrats are known to have switched sides, if only for a night, to caucus with Republicans. And vice versa. And it’s legal.


The Democrats have a convoluted caucus process that involves good old-fashioned arm-twisting and can run into the wee hours of the night. It won't this year because Obama has no challenger.  The Republican Caucuses, however, are a hybrid: part poll and part GOP meeting. Designated supporters of each candidate are allowed to campaign vigorously, making a speech on why their candidates deserve to win that evening’s votes. This is to convince the fence sitters to go with their candidate or to win over someone who is torn between two candidates.

Then Iowans vote by secret ballot. They are given blank sheets of paper with no candidate names on them. They write down their choice and the GOP at each precinct tabulates the results as they are phoned in. The results are then released to the media.

Mitt Romney seems pretty confident.

Newt says "I don't think I'm going to win," and then says it was a "compound sentence structure" that the media just didn't get.  I've been teaching English for almost 20 years and I'm not aware that "I don't think I'm going to win" is a compound sentence, but hey, Newt is the intellectual.  Not me.

Michele Bachmann won "the coffee bean caucus" but Sarah Palin says it's not her time.

Rick Perry is still hammering Santorum and is looking at this think like a long distance race.  Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal is with Perry tonight and says:

“It is time for us now to take all of this excitement and energy and turn it into real work,” Jindal said. “It is time for us to get our neighbors, friends, family, everybody we know out and make sure that we help to elect Rick Perry as the next president of these United States of America.”

The Duggar family has joined the Santorum camp and the media is thick around the candidate.

Ron Paul is oozing confidence .

All in all I'd say there's a lot of nervous energy in Iowa tonight.

Stay with SIGIS tomorrow for caucus coverage and up to the minute reports.

Live-Blogging the Sioux City Debate UPDATED

We're about half an hour from debate time.  I've been busy this evening wrapping gifts and making a rum cake so I haven't done much debate prep.  I'll send you over to Pundette for that who has two excellent posts (and like me, seems to still be pulling for a Rick Perry resurgence).  Also check out Professor Jacobson who is also blogging the debate tonight and has some excellent debate prep.

Meanwhile, I better go eat some dark chocolate covered espresso beans if I'm going to stay awake for this thing.

8:10:   Wow.  No fluffy introductions or battle music.  Straight to the questions.  Brett Baier asks Newt if he's electable.  Newt's response?  Merry Christmas!  Oh, wait.  Now Newt is saying he should get the nod because he can debate Obama.  Yeah, well, that might make for interesting TV but ...

Newt is trying to convince us he's conservative.  I'm not convinced.  So far he's rattling off credentials that show he's been in Washington a long freaking time.  Not a plus for me.

Megyn Kelley points out to Ron Paul that lots of folks don't think he can get elected.  Ron Paul says anybody up there can beat Obama and the crowd loves that.

Rick Santorum is here sporting a peppermint striped tie.  That is all.

Mitt smirks.  Irritating.

Mitt touts himself as a private sector dude.

Bachmann has an up-do tonight.  Are you too conservative, she's asked.  Seriously?

To Perry:  Why aren't you a great debator?  How can you possibly run for president against Obama because of your lousy debating skills?  Perry:  I'm gettin' better at this and I hope Obama and I get to debate a lot!

He actually is getting better at debates, but that's not saying much.  He pulls the Tebow card.  "I hope I'm the Tim Tebow of the Iowa caucuses."  WTF?

Huntsman is orange.

"We're getting SCREWED as Americans!" says Huntsman as he notes that we're "on the cusp of a third government shut-down."

8:20:  A gridlock in Washington question with a 30 second response time down the line.

Newt:  We have "a Saul Alinsky radical" as commander in chief....

Perry:  Obama is the biggest example of "on the job training" we've ever seen and we need someone with executive experience that knows how to lead.

Romney doesn't like the 30 second limit.

Mitt:  "This president doesn't know how the economy works.  I believe to create jobs you have to have created jobs."

Chris Wallace gets a Fannie Mae question and is asked how that is not hypocritical to his current stance.  "I was a private citizen engaged in business!"  "I worked for years for Habitat for Humanity!" 

To Ron Paul, a question about his negative Newt ads.  Chris Wallace is inviting a throw-down between candidates here and I guess Newt will jump all over him for that before long.

Mitt looks confused as Ron Paul babbles.

Newt:  I did no lobbying of any kind for any organization.

Bachmann:  He cashed checks from Freddie Mac!  He's defending the continuing practice of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae!  I'm SHOCKED!

Newt:  That's not true!  "Sometimes people ought to have FACTS before they make wild accusations."

Throw down.

8:45:  Had a computer freeze and lost a bunch of fascinating live-blog commentary but Rick Perry had a good burst there for a minute.   He said, in response to the comments about Newt's lobbying activities that the fact that we can't tell the difference between "lobbying" and "consulting" is exactly what's wrong with Washington right now.  He cited his part-time Congress meme and got wild applause from the audience.  When it was pointed out to him that Congress worked 152 days last year and he was asked, "How much more part time do you want them to be?", Perry replied, "I would suggest to you 140 days every other year which is what we do in Texas."  Wild applause.  Good showing by Perry.

8:50:  I'll update more often since my computer is acting funky.  

8:55:  Much discussion on Newt's lame-brain plan to have Congress oversee justices.  Panel question:  Favorite Supreme Court justice?

Perry:  We should no longer have life-time terms on the bench.  He likes Alito, Thomas and Roberts.  As does Mitt.  And Newt.  He says Scalia is probably the most intellectual.  Ron Paul:  They're all good and they're all bad.  Bachmann:  Scalia at the top of her list.  Likes Roberts, too.  Huntsman:  The great thing about this country is that we have rule of law!

Break.

What was up with that favorite justice question anyway?  Did they think anyone would say Ginsberg?  Lame.

9:05:  Hour number two.  Here we go.  Foreign policy.  And of course to Ron Paul first.

Why no Fast and Furious questions, by the way?

Ron Paul doesn't believe Iran has nukes.  No UN evidence!  It's all war propaganda!

He scares the hell out of me.

9:15:  Another computer freeze.

Ron Paul babbled for several minutes about Iran not having nukes and Bachmann stared at him like he's an alien.  Ron Paul is just dangerous.  Period.

Romney had a good answer on American strength through the military.  A strong military keeps other nations from testing us, he said.

Ron Paul is about to stroke out about a drone flying over Iran and seems convinced that we just want to go bomb Iran for the hell of it.

9:16:   Bachmann says Ron Paul is dangerous.  She points out the IAEA report and Ron Paul says "There's no UN report!"  He falls back to Cuba and the Bay of Pigs.  No real correlation there but he's stickin' to it.

From that crazy train we go back to Newt.  A UN question.  Newt wants to dramatically reduce our reliance on it.  Amen to that.

9:17:   Huntsman says fix problems at home before we fix problems overseas.  He gets double dinged with the timer.

To Perry, a question on Syria.  At what point should the United States consider military action there?  Perry restates his previous no-fly position and says Obama has the "most muddled" foreign policy he's ever seen in his lifetime.

Cavuto moves on to energy issues and has a Keystone pipeline question.  To Newt:  How should Republicans force the issue?  Newt:  I'm trying not to appear "zany!"  Heh!

So then Newt proceeds to blast Obama's position on Keystone.  "Utterly irrational" is what Newt says Obama's position on that is.  "It makes no sense to any normal, rational American."  Wild applause.

Cavuto:  You didn't answer my question.

Newt:  Attach it to a middle class tax cut, send it to the president and force him to veto it.  Don't back down.

9:23:   To Huntsman:  Does the need to protect land every trump the need to create jobs?  He's babbling something about disrupting the oil monopoly.  We have to have natural gas, he says.  He isn't answering the environment question.

To Bachmann:  What would be an acceptable period for oil drilling to cease (following a similar accident as the BP accident).  She says the moratorium hurt the economy more than the original disaster.  Keystone is extremely important, she says.  "If I was president of the US, I wouldn't have taken the position he did."  It was all political to appease the environmentalists, she says.  He's put his re-election over jobs.

9:27:   Perry:  Today is the 220th anniversary of the signing of the Bill of Rights.  I like the 10th Amendment a lot.

He's answering a tax policy question and Solyndra.  "Government shouldn't be pickin' winners and losers from Washington!"

9:32:   A border question for Perry.  Finally!  A Fast and Furious question!  Audience applauds.  "Are you and other Republicans politicizing this issue?"  Perry says as president, if his Attorney General DIDN'T know about such an operation he would have him resign immediately.  Applause.

Perry says despite what the president says, our border is NOT safe.  Venezuela has the largest Iranian embassy in the world, he says.  (Ron Paul would not see a problem with that.)

Oh!  Rick Santorum is still here.  He'd fire his Attorney General and not give him a chance to resign.

9:35:  To Romney:  "Why would illegal immigrants voluntarily leave America" and return to their country of origin in order to apply for legal status when you said you aren't going to round them up?

Because they'll have a plastic card.  If they're legal, they'll have a card.  If you hire them and they don't have a card, MAJOR sanctions.  In other words, they won't be able to work so they'll go home.  Back of the line.

9:38:  Newt stands by his if-you've-been-here 25 years or more thing.  He'd drop all the lawsuits against Arizona, etc.

Huntsman says we don't need to pander; Republicans need to stay true to their values.  The president has screwed up the economy so bad, he says, nobody is coming anymore anyway.

9:40:  Abortion, gay rights, and guns.  Flip-flop question to Romney.  Are you a flip-flopper?  Romney takes exception to the gay rights issue:  I am firmly against people being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation but I am against gay marriage.  Hunh?

9:42:  I'm pro-gun!, Romney says.  Wallace points out he supported a 5 day waiting period and an assault weapons ban.

9:44:  Romney:  I have been a champion of traditional marriage.

To Bachmann:  Wallace now pits her against Newt on the issue of when life begins.  Bachmann says Newt opted not to defund Planned Parenthood when he was Speaker.  She also throws partial birth abortion at him.

Newt:  "Sometimes Congresswoman Bachmann does not get her facts just right."  He believes life begins at conception, he says.  Says he is against experimentation on embryos.  Bachmann insists on defending herself:  she says "I'm a serious candidate for president of the United States and my facts are accurate."  Good for her.

9:50:  Brett Baier:  Reagan's 11th commandment:  Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican.  You've all broken that.  Who is less electable than Obama?

Santorum:  Let's find out who has the best record; who can stand up.  Who fights for the principles we believe in?

Perry:  The Republican chairman said that, not Reagan, he says.  Perry gives kudos to the other candidates.

Romney:  Obama has a billion dollars to go after me or whoever the nominee is, but it's Obama we have to be talking about - not each other.

Newt:  Overall I've tried very hard to talk about big solutions.  All these people would be better than Obama.

Paul:  Iran doesn't have nukes!  No, kidding.  The media hasn't asked enough questions and we have to fill in!  We have to draw the line and not hit below the belt. 

Bachmann:  Reagan brought clarity to the opponents in his primaries.  "Are we better off today than we were four years ago under Jimmy Carter?"  We have to ask ourselves if we are better off.

Huntsman:  I worked for Reagan!  Debate is good.  I'm orange!

*Sigh.

Good night for Rick Perry when he got air time.  Romney held his own.  Slow and steady.  Paul is crazy as a run over dog.  Bachmann was very strong.  Very strong. 

So glad this is the last debate of the year.

Peace.

Live-Blogging The National Security Debate

We're about five minutes from kickoff. 

Tonight's debate is sponsored by CNN, the Heritage Foundation, and The American Enterprise Institute.

Debate prep here.

7:05:  Good grief.  War montage opening, dramatic music, and candidate profiles that look like Mission Impossible dossiers.  Live-streaming here.

7:10:   What in the world could they all be taking notes about before the debate even starts?  They're scribbling on their notepads.  Hmmmmm.

Oh good grief; personal intros.  Does anybody not know who these people are?  Can't we just get started?

Finally, first question.  But why oh why must Wolf Blitzer always clarify, rephrase, or parse the question?

The question is about the Patriot Act and Newt explains what we'll "all be in danger" for the rest of our lives.  Be scared.  He would not change the Patriot Act.  Newt:  "I've spent years studying this stuff."  He does make a nice distinction between criminal law where "you're on the defensive" and national security.

Ron Paul, of course, disagrees.  And now his 89 seconds are done.

7:20:  Newt:  I don't want a law that says after you take out an American city, we're going to come find you.  I want a law that says if you try to take out an American city, we're going to stop you.

Bachmann says we've turned national security over to the ACLU and warns against Miranda rights for terrorists.

Mitt gets a question about TSA patdowns.  He says "we can do better" and then decides to answer another question.  He makes a distinction between crime, war, and terror.  "We need tools when war is waged domestically," so that the president can defend the country.  "Yes we'll use the Constitution and criminal law for those who commit crimes," but we'll use a very different form of law for terrorists.

Wolf tosses the TSA question to Perry who wants to privatize it and "get rid of those unions."  He, too, agrees with the Patriot Act and suggests strengthening it.  Perry touts gathering military intelligence around the world and suggests we may be lacking in that these days.

Santorum explains why he supports profiling:  "We should find the bomber, not the bomb."

7:25:  Santorum explains now who he would profile.  Ron Paul is coming unglued.  "What if they look like Timothy McVeigh!?"  They're not terrorists, he says, "they're suspects!"  Lawsy.

Finally to Herman Cain.  Should Muslims get extra screening?  Cain, too, says we could do a whole lot better with TSA.  He also likes privatization.  Cain:  The terrorists want to kill all of us so we should kill them first.  That sound you hear is Ron Paul imploding.

Did Cain just call him Blitz?  Okay.  "Well, since we're on a Blitz debate....!"  Laughter.

Next question regards using an extended drone campaign in Pakistan.  Huntsman says "it must be done."  We don't need 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, he exclaims.

Bachmann would continue aid to Pakistan but "the Obama policy of keeping your fingers crossed" in Pakistan is not working.

Perry says Pakistan has showed us time after time that they can't be trusted.  He's not sending them a dime and the audience applauds.  "If you're not going to be an ally of the United States, don't expect a dime of our citizen's money..."

Bachmann calls this "highly naive...."We're not just writing blank checks," she says, "we're exchanging information."

Huntsman suggests the American people are tired of being in Afghanistan and Mitt challenges him:  Are you suggesting we just pull out next week?, he asks.  Mitt harkens back to what the commanders want.  "I stand with the commanders in this regard," so as to not risk what has been achieved so far.  "The mission is pretty straightforward," Mitt says. 

7:45:  Newt is confused.  He's trying to clarify the question.  He's getting applause on the line that killing bin Ladin in Pakistan drew Pakistan/American relations to a new low.  Once again, Newt stays above the fray.

Sam Adams break.

7:55:  We're to Israel now.  

Rick Perry reasserts the need for a no-fly zone over Syria.

Newt:  We could break the Iranian regime within a year by sabotaging their only refinery and other strategic moves.  Replace the regime without a war and before they get a nuclear weapon.

Bachmann:  Why are we talking about Israel having to make a strike against Iran?  Because Iran wants to eradicate Israel.  Obama has failed, she said.  For 2.5 years, Obama gave Iran the "luxury of time."

Question:  Can the US afford to continue foreign assitance for AIDS, malaria?

Cain:  It may be worthwhile to continue, it may not.  I'd like to see the results.

Ron Paul:  Aid is all worthless; it doesn't do any good.  You take money from poor people in this country and give it to rich people in poor countries.  "Nobody cares about the budget!  Nobody wants to cut anything!"  Endless wars!  OMG!  Panic!

Romney:  They're cutting a trillion dollars out of the defense budget!  We need to protect America and stop ObamaCare!

Paul:  They're not cutting anything out of anything!

Applause.

8:05:   Mitt runs through the list of what programs and weapons are getting cut.  He refocuses on "the failure on the part of the president to lead with strength."

Mitt promises that his first foreign trip will be to Israel.

Perry gets a question on the Super Committee and cuts.  "If you were president of the US, would you compromise with Democrats in Congress to avoid Washington gridlock?"

Perry says the Super Committee was a Super Failure and everyone expected that.  Obama didn't lead.  Perry passed budgets in Texas.  This president has been a failure.  Perry actually seems to be having a pretty good debate, and all that means really, is that he hasn't made a huge gaffe yet.

"If Leon Panetta is an honorable man, he should resign in protest!" (to defense cuts.)

Wolf pulls Perry back to the gridlock question.  Perry says you can work with people on both sides of the aisle, but in this particular case. Obama didn't lead.  Perry says if he had been president, we would never have been in that situation in the first place.

Everyone piles on Obama now. Santorum says all he does is campaign and "he's poisoned the well" in Congress.

Wonderful!  A question about entitlement reform!  Newt likes it.

Newt says entitlement reform could begin with his Social Security reform plan. He cites the Chilean plan.

To Bachmann:  What would you cut first?  She goes back to the Super Committee and drawing lines in the sand.  Sigh.

8:20:  Bachmann:  Our money will be used to grow China's military at the expense of our military.  That should give every American pause.

Interesting.

Border questions.  Perry fields this one.  "It's time for a 21st century Monroe Doctrine."  He explains the border is porous for terrorists working in and through Mexico.  Border security "is paramount" to the security of the "entire Western hemisphere!"  Working with Mexico is important as well as "boots on the ground."  He promises the border "will be shut down and secure" within 12 months of his inauguration. 

Ron Paul is for calling off the drug war.  Eliminate benefits for illegals, like education and free health care.  Paul says the war on drugs is a total failure and that sick people should have marijuana.  "The federal government is over riding state laws" on those matters.  Get rid of alcohol!  he says.

Don't come between me and Sam Adams, Dr. Paul.

Herman Cain:  Yes, an insecure border is a national security threat.  Terrorists have come into this country through Mexico.

Woah.  Cain says the number of people killed in Mexico last year equals the number of those killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.  Where did that come from?

Rick Perry makes the most intense faces sometimes.

Newt says if you've just come to this country and you have no ties here, you ought to go home.  If you've been here for years and have 3 children and belong to the local church, we're probably not going to separate you from your family.  Give people with engineering degrees, etc, a green card upon graduation!

Bachmann: sounds like amnesty to me!  "I don't agree that we should make 11 million workers who are here illegally, legal."

Newt:  I don't see any reason to punish someone who came here at 3 years of age and wants to serve in the military.

Bachmann:  "We need to move away from magnets...."

Romney is still here!

"Amnesty is a magnet," he says.  The right course is to welcome people legally.  Make an easier, more transparent system. 

Mitt:  "Secure the border, turn off the magnets...".

Newt:  I do not believe that the American people will oust people who have been here their whole lives from this country.  Paraphrase:  I don't believe that the party that says it's the party of the family is going to separate families.

Perry comes after Mitt on magnets.  Please don't bring up the lawn service again.

Perry wants to secure the border first and then put something in place that keeps families together and clean up the process.  Nothing happens until the border is secure, he says.  "Boots on the ground" again.  Drink.

Mitt:  "I'm not gonna draw lines here on who gets to stay and who has to go."  No amnesty.

Commercial break.  You know what that means.

8:50:  Next question is about Syria.  Wolf reframes the question and asks Cain if he'd support a no-fly zone over Syria. 

Nope, he says.

Somebody forgot to tell Cain this is a foreign policy debate; he's back to growing the economy again.

Perry deftly handles his position on the no-fly zone, I think.  It's a weird position, but he explains it well! 

He appears to have studied a bit on foreign policy.  "If we're serious about Iran, we have to be serious about Syria as well.  A no-fly zone is one of a multitude of options...".

How can Ron Paul be so clueless and isolationist!?  Sometimes he says the most naive things ever.

"Taliban doesn't mean they want to come and kill us.  It means they want to kill us over there."  Yes, he really said that.

Mitt:  Good answer.  America leads the free world and the free world follows America.

Mitt is not in favor of a no-fly zone.  Use sanctions and covert actions to obtain a regime change.  He refers to the Syrian Alawites.  I bet Herman Cain doesn't even know what that is.

Perry:  "Get serious about Syria", again.  Tongue twister deftly handled.  Easier to remember than three departments to cut.

Okay well they're wrapping this up.

Newt didn't get as much thunder as I anticipated; could have something to do with being the front runner now.  He's still the smartest person in the room.  Ron Paul got a lot more time than I thought he would/should.  Ditto Huntsman.  Cull the herd.  Perry was actually stronger than I've seen him but not exactly on fire.  Mitt Romney was steady and consistent as always.  He didn't hurt himself, I don't think.  Bachmann was strong.  I guess if there's a loser it's Cain but we expected that.

One more debate in the books.

I'm out.

The Republican Debate (UPDATED and OUT)

I'm ready.

And we begin with Rick Perry touting his record in Texas.  He says 95% of all jobs he's created have been above minimum wage.

Romney's first question deals with his own jobs record.  It's dismal.  Romney is somehow trying to defend it and says he's created more jobs in Massachusetts than Obama has created in the entire nation.  He's got a tiny jab at "career politicians" in his response.  Romney touts his economic chops while jabbing career politicians.

Perry's rebuts with a criticism of Romney's jobs record; Romney's rebuttal of Perry's rebuttal explains the differences between Texas and his own state.

It's the Perry/Romney show.  They've both done their homework and come out firing.

7:15:  Herman Cain has the first laugh line with his 9-9-9 plan on taxes.  "If 10% is good enough for God, 9% should be good enough for the federal government!" 

And they're all firing at Perry.  Huntsman touts his own jobs record in Utah.  He also touts his "world" experience.  "I've lived overseas four times..." and can speak Chinese.

Bachmann's first spiel has to do with Obamacare killing jobs and her experience as a foster mom.  "Kids need jobs."

7:20:  Ron Paul.  Who does he sound like?  Some cartoon character but I can't put my finger on it.

Newt addresses Perry's book Fed Up!  He's not interested in plugging the book right now (though he wrote the forward).  He wants, instead, to talk about more serious issues.  Newt jabs Obama and says "he's so committed to class warfare" that he can't possibly be interested in forming jobs.  Applause.

Gotta love live TV; the clip of Romney they had cued up doesn't work.

The question is about Romneycare and the individual mandate.  Romney says, "I understand health care pretty darned well...." and promises an executive order on Day One to grant waivers from Obamacare.  He beats Perry to the punch who said in South Carolina that on day one he would issue an executive order repealing as much of ObamaCare as he could.

Perry's response is that Medicaid needs to be "block granted" back to the states and says the federal government needs to get out of the way.  This seems to be his answer to everything.  He's got to do better than that.  And Perry gets to deliver his Executive Order line on wiping out ObamaCare.

Moderators want to know why so many in TX are un-insured.  Perry doesn't exactly answer as best I can tell.  He dodges.

Why is Jon Huntsman orange?

7:30: Bachmann is dying to get into this.  "Obamacare took over 1/6th of the American economy" she says and insists than an executive order is pretty much meaningless.  "It will take a very strong leader," she says.  She is correct that if we fail to repeal Obamacare in 2012 "it will be with us forever."

Newt:  "I'm not interested in your effort to get Republicans fighting each other."  Amen.

Newt:  "Every person up here understands Obamacare is a disaster."  And he goes on to bash Obama other than other Republicans.  Point to Newt.  Amen! Newt says he will "repudiate every effort" by the media to pit Republicans against each other in order to protect Barack Obama.  AMEN!!!

7:35: Ron Paul is digging around in his pockets while Herman Cain goes on about HillaryCare, ObamaCare and RomneyCare.

Santorum.  Oh!  He's here?  Okay.  A welfare system question and do you care about poor people.  Hunh?

Perry:  "The best thing we can do in this country for those who need help is create an economy where those who work hard" can take care of themselves.

Oh joy.  Twitter questions.  To Romney a question about gas prices.  His response is to quit buying foreign oil.  "We've got to develop our oil, our gas...our clean coal...".  Yep we can have an impact, he says, but he won't promise $2.00 per gallon like Bachmann did.  "He keeps talkin' about green jobs.  Where are they?!"

Bachmann:  "Energy is one of the greatest opportunities for job creation we have!"

Huntsman says $2.00 predictions aren't realistic.  Ron Paul wipes his nose.

To Ron Paul:  Do you advocate getting rid of the minimum wage?  "Absolutely."  Ron Paul, "I'm a physician but you sure weren't gonna ask me a medical question."

"Medicare - isn't THAT a mandate?" he says.

Paul promises a gallon of gas for a silver dime (which is worth $3.50).

Rick Perry and Ron Paul go toe to toe now.  Perry mentions the letter Ron Paul wrote to Reagan telling him he was going to drop out of the Republican party because of what Reagan believed in.  Paul says he supported the message of Reagan but the consequence was "not all that great.  Huge deficits in the 80s."

7:50:   To Perry.  The Social Security question.  "Explain your view...".  Perry acknowledges that Social Security can't be changed now.  How to change it going forward is his focus.  "Men and women who are receiving those benefits today....or those nearing retirement...don't have anything to worry about."  But he insists still "it is a Ponzi scheme."  He's right - it's true.

Perry:  "Karl has been over the top for a long time in his remarks.  I'm not responsible for Karl anymore," in reference to Rove's comments on Perry's Social Security position.

To Romney, another Social Security question.  Romney agrees that the funding isn't working.  Romney jabs at Perry who had said "Social Security is a failure."  Romney says it isn't.  Romney insinuates that Perry wants to "abolish" Social Security.  I don't think that's what Perry said; he wants reform, not abolishment.

Perry:  "You cannot keep the status quo in place and call it anything else but a Ponzi scheme."

Herman Cain is sick of the "rhetoric" and offers a solution of personal retirement accounts: the Chilean system, he says.

Ron Paul is asked about Perry's record.  All this pitting one Republican against the other.  Bleh.  Paul discusses the HPV vaccine.  "This is not good medicne," he says.  "It is not good social policy."  Paul says he didn't even know that governors in Texas could pass legislation with executive orders and says as president he will NOT use executive orders "to pass laws."

Perry says he feels like "a pinata."  Welcome to front-runner status.

He says "we allowed for an opt-out" in the HPV program. 

Santorum is offended by the Gardisil program.  "Instead of an opt-out, how about an opt-in."

Romney almost defends Perry here, acknowledging that Perry's "heart was in the right place" and should have done it differently.  Says Obama "doesn't have a clue" how to fix this country.

On to the TSA:  Ron Paul call the TSA agents abusive and the airports a monstrosity.  He bashes FEMA.

8:05:   Herman Cain:  "Don't eliminate FEMA, let's FIX FEMA" and Homeland Security.  Cain says the federal government is "not good at micro-managing anything" and touts states rights.

Huntsman's hands aren't orange; why is his face?

"I just want to point out..." with his pale fingers...

To Perry:  Your state is a miserable failure in high school graduation rates.  Why did you cut education?

His response?  Texas has made great progress in the 10 years I've been governor and our graduation rate is 84%.  "We're makin' progress."  He says Texas has a unique situation by "sharing a border with Mexico."  So that's why they get in-state tuition for college?  Someone ask him that, please?

Race to the Top:  Newt likes charter schools.   He'd like a Pell grant for k-12 so everyone has choice.

8:10  For border security, Perry wants "boots on the ground...aviation assets in the air," and secure the border before you deal with immigration reform.  "It is NOT safe on that border," Perry says.

To Romney - "We got to have a fence."  And agents.  Romney says, yep, they can get a ladder, but we've left "the magnet on," i.e, incentives.  Like tuition breaks!  Romney opens the door.

"We can NOT give amnesty to illegals" says Romney.  We have too many waiting to get in legally, he says.

Oh come on.  Go back to Perry on that!  But no, to Newt - discussing Reagan's policy.  "We ought to control the border, have a legal guest worker program...." be tough on employers, make English the official language of government, and insist that they learn American History.  And we have to find a way to deal with those folks that have been here , some for 25 years.

Oh.  Santorum is still here.  He's the son of an Italian immigrant. 

Bachmann:  "In Mexico right now we're dealing with narco-terrorists."  I think all the Republicans agree that the border must be secured.  Either challenge Perry on the tuition question or move on.

Huntsman says Reagan felt immigration was "a human issue" and that we should look at it that way, then he attempts to channel Reagan and tell us what Reagan would say if he were here.

8:20:   Ron Paul says American a not about fences, barbed wire, machine guns, and ID cards.  A fence is "to keep us in!"  Paranoid much?

8:30:  Perry is for cap, cut and balance.  Something about cutting off the snake's head.   And now Bachmann channel's Reagan and says he would be for it too. 

Romney:  "We have an absence of leadership" and explains Obama's lack of experience prior to the election.  He says he's "put together an outline" to get America back on track - everything from energy policy to trade policy, etc.

Back to Perry - a question on national security:  "I don't think America needs to be in the business of adventurism."  On Obama, Perry commends him for maintaining "the chase" on Osama.  Also, "He has proven for once and for all that government spending won't create one job."  In addition, "He kept Gitmo open," against the wishes of his base. 

To Bachmann - a Libya question.  "Are you advocating a shift away from the George W. Bush Freedom Agenda?"  Bachmann says Obama has weakened us militarily.  She says it was wrong to go into Libya.

8:40:  Santorum dislikes "the isolationist" view he sees on the stage.  He says Obama was indecisive and confused on Libya and only went along with it because the UN told him to.  Invokes Reagan. 

A bizarre question to Huntsman about "crazy and inane statements" and attempts to pit him against other Republicans on the stage.  Huntsman says "we can't run from science," and "we can't run from mainstream conservative philosophy."  Global warming?  Really?

Heh - Huntsman:  "I can get elected."  Okay.

Perry on global warming:  "I do agree that ...the science is not settled on this,"...but that we shouldn't put the American economy in jeopardy on "science that is not settled yet." 

"Find out what the science truly is before you put the American economy in jeopardy," Perry says.

He touts the Texas clean air actions.  Nitrous oxide and ozone levels down.

Bachmann says that tomorrow night "the nation won't be seeing permanent solutions," but instead more gimmicks.  Agreed.

Newt says he would fire Bernanke tomorrow.  I tell you, Newt livens up a dull debate.  He tells it like it is.  He blows off questions they've asked and answers whatever he wants to.  He's by far the best speaker.  Not electable but a good debater. 

Romney:  "I don't want to raise taxes on the American people."  He says the middle class is the population most hurt by the Obama economy.  "No tax on interest, dividends, or capital gains," he says.  He's a negative on Bernanke as well.

To Perry on the death penalty - (and applause when his total of executions was announced).  Perry says, No, he hasn't lost any sleep over that and explains the appeals process.  You "will face the ultimate justice in the state of Texas" if you kill one of "our citizens."  More applause.  "When you have committed heinous crimes against one of our citizens," you will face the ultimate justice.  The audience likes this.

8:50:  Ron Paul gets a question about free lunch and feeding poor school children.  He resists the accusations that if you don't support the welfare state you aren't compassionate.  Applause.


And done.  So who won?  I'd have to say Newt.  Romney continued to fly under the radar while still getting a few early jabs in at Perry.  Perry stayed true to script and used a lot of the same lines I heard him use in South Carolina and in his book.  Santorum and Cain seem to struggle for attention and when Bachmann doesn't get called on she tries to jump in.  Nobody screwed up or gaffed, as far as I could see.  But Newt seemed to have the most commanding presence.

I was anxious to see how Perry would do as his first debate.  I think Perry is vulnerable on a couple of issues, immigration being one.  I haven't seem him pressed or challenged on that in-state tuition issue which concerns a lot of conservatives.  He took a couple of hits on it tonight as others insisted that the incentives for illegals be removed.  He has to come up with a response to that.

He's also vulnerable on the Social Security issue although I do agree with him that it is a Ponzi scheme.  If you're using today's payments to pay current recipients, and the number of people paying into Social Security is decreasing, as it is, then there is no guarantee that the money you're paying into it will be there when you need it.  That's the very definition of a Ponzi scheme. 

Perry will need to articulate better his message of reform because what people are hearing is "abolish."

Mark me as still undecided.  Lots of time left.